Talk:Farmer's Force
Oh hey look thats my ideology. -Sunkist- (talk) 08:33, April 13, 2013 (UTC) :Don't worry Sunkist I recognise only you as the true representative of western Sylvania. A random new party cannot take your place simply by playing at politics. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 11:33, April 13, 2013 (UTC) : It was never that I was against that ideology but it needed some backstory and a viable force behind it. I'm not gonna do much with, or nothing at all, but Sunkist can take it if he wants. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:07, April 13, 2013 (UTC) :Oh and two things: It's a political (role-playing) wiki so maybe even one day ill bring a FF's member into the State Council (I'll do that soon) or Congress. @Hoffmann - Yeah in a sense its close to the CNP, but has values ranging from social liberalism-classical and inebetween but brought together through agarianism and western nationalism. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:15, April 13, 2013 (UTC) ::Just a question, considering that the wests (sylvania) history is of american protestant farmers and miners who would naturally consider themselves to be separate from the beginning, not only in belief but in culture from the primarily catholic european east, what would make you think that nationalism (or the other ideas) needed to be something invented by someone? ::Being such a unique part of Sylvania (although all parts of Sylvania are quite unique) it would naturally consider itself different. Nationalism is being proud of the land you are part of, these men and women most certainly would have been proud of the lives they built with their own sweat and blood in the west from the beginning. Also why would farmers who own their own land, provide much of the nations food and more and who would probably have been some of the much better off and probably still are suddenly turn to regulated markets and 'farmers rights'? while they have de facto complete control of their own land, don't have to pay any taxes on it and have never had to deal with corporate competition because no right minded Sylvanian would sell their land. ::This party is rather topsy turvy for the place it wants to garner support from and from what it claims to be. ::Also how could the membership be 1000 when the party is practically going to only appeal to western Sylvania at a stretch. it's numbers should be more aroun 200-300. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:00, April 13, 2013 (UTC) ::Not to back away from this, but it is an idea brought around by sunkist which seems nice and I've deicded to take up. I guess the point it the culture and economic production in the west is so different from the rest of the state, while being similar to rural Kings and Oceana. I think we often see, maybe an overplayed, rural versus urban political battle thoughout politics, seen primarly in America and Canada where you see, maybe not nationalism, but a strong sense of pride and a wanting to preserve the culture from the "Urban Elites" like in Alberta or Montana. Frankly I don't understand the main ideas of agranianism but I would suspect the main points would be government subsidies with deregulation, while keeping the playing field fair. LIke in America today were we've gone from a few hundred farms gaining a good amount of profit to a few farms making a grand amount of profit. Althought if you can please change it to be correct but keep in mind there is socialist agarianism and other versions of it, i'm aming for nationalism-centrist-agarianism. And i'll lower the membership Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:29, April 13, 2013 (UTC) :::With regard to WS nationalism being invented, I think the article is clear that the differences already existed, but 'the excitement of nationalism' didn't occur until the 1970s. Maybe it would be clearer to say that the political movement wasn't founded until that time. Also, I think Marcus is trying to build on Sunkist's ideas, not hijack them. --Semyon 18:37, April 13, 2013 (UTC) :::Oh Semyon always has the power to put things straight :D very true. I never had anything gainst the movement and in fact (kinda) support it in its excitment in the Lovian political sphere so I just wanted to give it some back story and eventually bring it out into the sportlight. Marcus/Michael Villanova 18:39, April 13, 2013 (UTC) :::How does it seem now? I plan to switch one of the state councilers to this party to give it representation. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:58, April 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::I started to read, and I saw that it was far from CDP. I couldn't figure out why it was far at first; then I read, "We support the use of wind turbines, sea fields of wind turbines and solar energy, to be placed in areas to not effect the wildlife and environment," and I realized why... TAE "Save the birds. Stop windmills!" --Quarantine Zone (talk) 01:25, April 14, 2013 (UTC) "We support the use of wind turbines, sea fields of wind turbines and solar energy, to be placed in areas to not affect the wildlife and environment. " I would say the party is rather about harvesting clean coal and using it in a responsible way, I'd say that way too many people in the southern portion of Western Sylvania wouldn't like the party if they were after their jobs by building wind turbines assembled in Noble City. -Sunkist- (talk) 01:30, April 14, 2013 (UTC) Can I just say, how can this kind of nationalistic and agrarian party possibly support wind turbines, I've met very few farmers who do, the only people who support wind turbines are the ones getting paid to install them (which in Britain means government officials, wind turbine engineers and the people who are given money to have wind turbines built on their land). And people who are nationalistic say that they ruin the countryside and call them ugly. I think this is Marcus putting his own politics into something he claimed he wanted to 'expand' not 'hijack'. Personally I think that this should be done in collaboration with Sunkist. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 10:15, April 14, 2013 (UTC) Also just as another question to really dig into this: Why would the primarily catholic eastern european miners of the Sylvanian Highlands want to be part of a western Sylvanian state with protestant american farmers from the Headlands? Hoffmann KunarianTALK 10:15, April 14, 2013 (UTC) :I thought most catholic Eastern European miners lived in Oshenna, as most mines are actually on the Oceana side of the Emeralds :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:01, April 14, 2013 (UTC) ::Most mines probably would be on the south due to historical reasons however also due to historic reasons (Collinia and the plains along with part of the highlands seperating from it to become part of Sylvania) there are a few mines on the northern side, and therefore there are a large amount of eastern europeans, and when you also consider that there are western europeans (dutch, belgian, etc.) in Sylvania too, it's bound to be primarily more catholic than protestants. in fact the census should show it if I haven't put it there already. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 13:56, April 14, 2013 (UTC) ::I don't think it did, i searched for it on the Emerald highlands page and such. But Look below, i've setteled a few of these issues, so I'll move this to a name page. Marcus/Michael Villanova 14:00, April 14, 2013 (UTC) :::Move it to a name page, I'm sorry if I've been annoying I've just been in a bit of a devils advocate mood recently. It should work, although the membership should be greatly reduced, due to the fact that their core supporters are coming from practically only the headlands and western highlands and the population there is really low. For an area like the headlands which now has two main activists for this same ideology (Sunkist and this party), having 250 in the main party is quite large and would probably equal the party membership of the major parties in the area. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:19, April 14, 2013 (UTC) :Yeah here we go again with the blame game, but in reality some do. A major part of nordic agarianism is the want for green policies that includes this. It's sort of logical, if you have dirty air and destroyed land then how could your possibly farm? There have also been numerous studies showing, from first hand expierence and through scientific studies that wind turbines don't effect livestock or there habits. Again so think it through before i'm "hijacking an ideology". Also I didn't know the history of Sylvania was written out entirely by you hoffmann? Yet no page ever makes reference to this, so i'll take it as that it doesn't matter either way. I'll take it that the miners are msotly likely protestant miners. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:48, April 14, 2013 (UTC) ::Firstly Americans are not nordics, and nordics are far more left wing than Americans even left wing Americans. And I'm not going to debate the fine points of green policy at the moment. Also I have not written out the history of Sylvania myself, in fact the history of Lovia and Sylvania has always been done by a group (although Semyon is at large to credit for main Lovian history). I am simply pointing out an agreed upon and logical point that the inhabitants of the highlands would not be primarily american protestants, although Coaltown would be leaning that way. Hoffmann KunarianTALK 15:12, April 14, 2013 (UTC) ::Fine i'll move the policy to "Green energy like solar panels and wind turbines fields in the ocean to not disrupt the Farmland" Marcus/Michael Villanova 15:38, April 14, 2013 (UTC) :Oh and there is no such thing as clean coal, it in itself is an oxymoron. Marcus/Michael Villanova 11:50, April 14, 2013 (UTC) :Still, with the lack of evidence or actual fact behing the emerald highlands being a "not like the west area" i removed it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 12:06, April 14, 2013 (UTC) :And with that ill be moving this to an actual page? Okayy. Marcus/Michael Villanova 13:48, April 14, 2013 (UTC) There is such a thing as clean coal..-Sunkist- (talk) 18:05, April 14, 2013 (UTC) There is but isn't. In the sense of the phrase it would mean "no Co2 relase" yet it's well documented that there is. Basically it still contributes to climate change just on smaller scale. Which means there is no such thing as "clean" coal. Marcus/Michael Villanova 19:21, April 14, 2013 (UTC) I'm a bit of a skeptic. In twenty or thirty years when I've got back problems and my family's notorious knee pains kick in, then I'll say I wanna puff of that clean coal air to see if it kills me and ends my misery, or if its really clean. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 21:28, April 14, 2013 (UTC) #Yeah it's not rocket science. If you pick up coal its dirty and black and you have soot everywhere. Do you really think there is any form of that is actually like clean? 100% clean? #By accident I first moved it too a user page, so technically right now were commenting on a "User:Farmer's Force" talk page. Although I did create an actual FF page so this can be deleted or the conversations moved. Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:32, April 15, 2013 (UTC) :: Well I agree with that. But I'm more concerned with the possibility of it being burned without producing the enomous amounts of pollution. If that isn't possible, then there is no such thing as "clean coal". Sounds more like a ploy by companies to use up another fuel source to line the coffers. They may just be using the word "clean" to get liberals and eco-fiends on their side. Vivaporius: "I don't need a slogan" 17:20, April 16, 2013 (UTC) :: Couldn't have described it better myself. Basically these energy companies realize green, clean energy is more attractive so they are trying to bring there product under that lable but there is no proof supporting "Clean coal" yet everything saying it isn't Marcus/Michael Villanova 21:51, April 16, 2013 (UTC) :Nice to see our family isn't the only family in the world with inexplicable knee pains :P Anyway, "clean coal" is a nice alliteration, but it ain't more than that. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 06:47, April 15, 2013 (UTC) I think if Lovia was on the frontier of CCS (Carbon Capture and Storage) and led first on clean coal technology then we could bring tons of jobs and intrest to Lovia. ---Sunkist- (talk) 00:24, April 17, 2013 (UTC) Glad to see the initvate though :D in total, does this capture the essence of westernsm and agrarianism? Marcus/Michael Villanova 23:07, April 17, 2013 (UTC) Does the booming coal and oil extraction capture the essence in North Dakota and Wyoming? No, they have some of the lowest unemployment rates and the best living standards in the country. If extraction is done properly, unlike like how its being done in WV, KY, Virginia and Penn, where we just blow up mountains. ---Sunkist- (talk) 23:56, April 17, 2013 (UTC) I meant the party itself :P Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:30, April 18, 2013 (UTC) : Bahah, sorry. I'd say most of the elements are well defined some need to be tweaked if I would be able to fully support it or join it. -Sunkist- (talk) 01:17, April 18, 2013 (UTC) : You can tweak a thing or two, sure I'm planing on giving a member of mine to the party in th SSC which will be there first major victory. Just not the environmen thing it's still opne to debate Marcus/Michael Villanova 20:44, April 19, 2013 (UTC) Options Either 1) It gets merged into RLP 2) Sunkist takes it over or 3) Delete it. IT was a nice idea bu if sunkist doesn't take it over i'll just merge it into RLP and if someone protests that, then ill just delete it. Marcus/Michael Villanova 00:33, June 17, 2013 (UTC)